Attention Pastors and Leaders, Wouldn't it be Great if your Church were FULL of AWESOMELY HAPPY MARRIAGES?

mythbusters pastors leader ministers Feb 10, 2023

Attention Pastors and Leaders,

Do you feel like it is time to get some effective help and training on marriage? Or do you, yourselves, need help for YOUR marriage?

Where do you go for help? Where can you get the right teachings that will enable you to have an Outrageously Happy Marriage - AND will help you to help those you minister to?

Warning.. Two paragraph Rabbit Trail coming up, based on a massive current event in the Body of Christ as of April, 2023: Where do you go when "Dr" Doug Weiss hid for years the fact that his marriage was going bad; and hid for over a year that he was divorced? (While still presenting himself as a happily married man to his staff and those he counseled.)  For years, Doug was referred to as "Dr. Marriage" being the founder of "Heart to Heart" ministries.

Where do you go when Jimmy Evans (of Jimmy and Karen Evans) validated the deception that Doug perpetrated on his counselees, his staff (and the world for that matter!) - finally exposing that he had been divorced for a year and was now announcing it... wiith the only reason to expose it being for the purpose of marrying Joni? (If you do not know these folks, please disregard. For those who know them, the damage is monstrous. That is why we mention it. End of Rabbit Trail.)  

Where do you go? We are here to help. We will soon be in our 40th year married, 30th year outrageously happily married and 20th year helping troubled couples go "From Misery to Outrageously Happy."

Our marriage is proven strong, happy. Our marriage ministry is tested, tried and proven successful with hundreds of couples all over the USA and 7 different countries. 

If you need help, we can help you!  If you want to understand marriage theology properly so that you can help those to whom you minister, then you have landed on the right website. We are LIVING what we teach - and that is the most important qualification. Correction. It is the ONLY qualification that matters when it comes to teaching marriage and helping couples in crisis. 

Here is where we start: 

If marriage has been taught the same way since the early sixties... and if that teaching has been correct, can you explain why there is such a high divorce rate in the Body of Christ?

Yes, Jesus said that divorce happens because of the hardness of men’s hearts. That explains a percentage, but we don’t think that many men have hardness of heart to that level.

Wrong marriage teaching will cause people who do not have “hard hearts” to end up in marriage misery and/or getting divorced.  They just don’t know the right ways.

If that is the case, then a large amount of “fault” for the many failed marriages has to do with wrong marriage teachings that have been embraced by the Body of Christ for over 60 years.

In 1991, we received a Prophetic Word from Roger Pugh: “You will be a father and you will be a mother in the Body of Christ. If God has His way with you, you will be full time in ministry.” 

That word was 3 years before our marriage got healed.

That word was 13 years before writing “The Man of Her Dreams/The Woman of His!” 

That word was 16 years before conducting the first “5-Day Weekend Marriage Intensive.”

For the last 19 years, we have been functioning in the Body of Christ as a “mother and father” in marriage teaching. Some might say “Prophets of Marriage” or “Apostles of Marriage” – titles are fun but the only thing that matters are results.

We care that couples receive the anointing for marriage miracles that God has put into our lives. Couples have been receiving that anointing for marriage miracles now for going on 20 years! The results have been awesome, life changing for many, earth shakingly amazing for some!

We care that Pastors, Leaders, Apostles, Prophets, Teachers and Evangelists would LEARN these things that have caused so many miracles in marriages.

Are you a Pastor, a Prophet, an Evangelist, a Teacher, an Apostle? Are you a leader in any way, in the Body of Christ? Then we care.

We care and hope that you would allow us to help you understand the things that God taught us about marriage. You can help those who you lead, if you have the right tools, if you have the right information.

As part of the Body of Christ, we encourage you to utilize us for what God has called us to do. We encourage you to “recognize” the part that we are to play. As a leader, Pastor, Evangelist, Pastor, Apostle, or Teacher, you know that you do not have all the answers.

You do have great insights into those things that are in your “lane.” You do have great wisdom in many areas that others lack.

When it comes to marriage teaching, there is a right way and a wrong way.

Are you blindly repeating any of those failed marriage paradigms from the last 60 years? Aka: Wrong teachings?

Does any of this sound familiar?

*Just agape love one another..

* Husbands, be a “servant-leader.”

* Wives, pray for your husband, love your husband and yes, “submit” to your husband.

* Husbands, you are the head (meaning authority) over your wife.

*Wives, your job is to respect your husband and follow his leadership.

If these messages were valid, you would not be frustrated after years of seeing the failures that have resulted from the repetition of these “canned” marriage messages.

Wouldn’t it be great if your ministry were full of AWESOMELY HAPPY marriages?

Wouldn’t it be great if God’s presence and love were so present in your couple’s homes that they would feel like they are experiencing the Glory of God in their homes, all day long, every day?

If you have had too many divorces in your ministry; if you have too many married couples “surviving” marriage instead of thriving in marriage joy and peace..  then you SHOULD be frustrated!

You are their PASTOR! You are their LEADER! This is happening on YOUR watch!

We have compassion for you. You have been reaching into an empty bag and offering “answers” that have been given from people who were sincere, loving, kind, dedicated, committed to the Lord and to their calling, but in marriage, their ideas were simply wrong, regurgitated, failed marriage paradigms.

 Marriage was not their “lane.” Marriage is not your “lane.”

But for some reason, leaders have followed each other down a marriage “lane” that was a wrong lane.

Everyone assumed that someone must have studied marriage!

If you are (rightly) frustrated, PLEASE consider this earth-shaking idea: You MIGHT have embraced the wrong conclusions about marriage, wrong approaches to marriage and wrong ways of teaching marriage in your church. (And/or implemented in your own marriage!)

Is this your fault? Not necessarily. The wrong marriage ideas have been regurgitated for 60 years.

“Everyone” says the same thing. It “must be right.”

So very few have studied marriage. The majority just regurgitate what others have said. If they do study, they only dig deep enough to affirm the surface ideas that “everyone” teaches.

For example:

In the first public marriage seminar that we did (That was in 2004, in a former early mega church) we spent three days pouring our hearts out, teaching the Word of God in a most powerful way.

The 25-year church administrator spoke up at the last session on Saturday night, saying “This is so amazing. We have never heard anything like this before. This is changing everyone’s lives.”

At the beginning of the seminar, the “church mother and father” were introduced as celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary and were extolled as being “the greatest example of a wonderful marriage” in the church.  

Everyone “oohed and awed” at the announcement. Everyone thought they had the most wonderful marriage.

On Saturday, after about six seminar sessions presented on Thursday and Friday evening, Saturday morning and afternoon, the wife pulled Kathy aside.

She said “Everyone here thinks our marriage has been great. The reality is that It has been horrible. Every 10 years, for the last 50 years, we have been in major crisis and had to get counseling, teaching me again how to submit to my husband. It has been like hell on earth. Thank God for your message. I am being set free!”

That was the testimony of the “happiest couple/longest married couple” in the church. Wow.

On the very next day, Sunday morning, we were on stage. We and the couples were basking in the glow of a most wonderful, miraculous marriage seminar! 

Suddenly, the 80-some year-old founding, Senior pastor gets up into the pulpit.

We think he is going to say something beautiful and profound, thanking us for a most wonderful, life-transforming seminar. He opens his mouth and says: “Well, I may not understand all these things that this couple taught. All I know is this. Agape love is your answer.”


If that were the case, then the “agape love” teaching that had been taught for 50 years in that church would have created happy marriages; not the church that we found which was full of marriages on the rocks.

Talk about ripping the rug out from under some couples who had finally, for the first time, heard marriage taught correctly.

In other words, this revered and beloved man who did not have a clue about correct marriage teaching, a man who had a church full of hurting and wounded marriages said, “Hear, hear, let’s just take this entire, 12-hour seminar, and discard it. Just agape love each other.”

Well, he is in Heaven now and that is all that I am going to say about that.

It was a frustrating moment for us and for those couples who finally had some proper marriage teaching for the first time in their Christian lives.

That was 2004.

Fast forward 18 years. September 2022: We are enjoying the ministry of a prophet online. We have enjoyed many hours of this prophet over the last 18 months.

At the end of a powerful 3-4 hour church service, he decided to comment (for the first time we have ever heard) on marriage. 

What did he say? “Wives, if your husband is sitting on his chair, barking out orders, get me this, get me that... don’t get mad at him. Just get him the things he is demanding, with a smile on your face. He will probably get up and start doing that for you.”

 In other words, “Wives, just agape love your husband if he is being a jerk to you.”

That is the same message regurgitated by the 80 year old, 18 years ago!

History repeats itself, over and over and over again. When will the church learn?

Husbands lead, wives follow and agape love each other.. is NOT going to work!

ARRGGHH!!!!! 18 years later. The same message, still being regurgitated. Leaders, please hear us loud and clear: STOP IT! 

After helping thousands of couples, selling thousands of books, it is disheartening that ministers, good ministers, great ministers, are still regurgitating the same failed marriage paradigms that were being regurgitated in 2004; all the way back to the early 60’s.

What? Are you saying this is wrong teaching, Joel and Kathy? 


Our minister and prophet friend actually did do a double take. He said, “Well ladies, not if you are in abuse. Get out if you are in abuse.” He then repeated that 3 or 4 times.

Ok. He caught himself. Glad that he did.

However, he did not realize it enough to say “Please erase what I just said. If your husband is sitting in his chair, demanding that you get him this and get him that.. then you ARE being abused!”

Yes, we know. The abuse he was talking about was a much worse abuse... a man beating his wife up etc.

For every one marriage where that is going on, there are 20 marriages where a husband is “sitting on his chair, demanding that his wife get him this or get him that.”(or some other variation of lower levels of abuse that are deemed to be “acceptable.”)

Unfortunately, 8000 online listeners, plus 100’s of people in person, heard the “main” message... “Wives, if your husband is being a jerk, just love him. Treat him good and you will turn him around.” 

Wrong. That is not how it works in the real world. Why? A wife is NOT called to agape love her husband.

What? A wife is not called to agape love her husband? No. Not once.

This is just one of the marriage transforming, paradigm shaking, life changing truths that you, as a Pastor, want to learn to stop making marriages WORSE.

The only time that a wife is told to “love” her husband is a translation of the word “philandros” – FRIENDSHIP love.

What is friendship love? Simple:

“If you treat me good, then I will treat you good.”

“If you make me feel good about myself, then I will make you feel good about yourself.”

“If you treat me great, then I will WANT to be around you, I will ENJOY being with you and hanging out with you.. and I will treat you FABULOUS in return!”  

Nothing more. Nothing less. Easy.

Yes, when a husband is treating his wife great, we want her to POUR the love on!

Yes wives, when he is being an awesome husband, then multiply that great treatment back to him! 

That is a “freebie.” If you are a leader, if you are a Pastor, if you are a Prophet, Evangelist, Apostle or Teacher, then you want to get HUNGRY to learn these things.  There is a lot more where that came from.

Our challenge to you is to take this SERIOUS. Why? You are touching couples all day, every day, or at least once each week.

It BEHOOVES you to LEARN the TRUTHS about marriage! 

So here is our challenge to you:

1.   Order and READ both of our books at 

Don’t just buy them and put them on your bookshelf. Make it a MISSION to learn this and learn it RIGHT.

THIS is an area that affects EVERY married couple and every single person who will be married one day. That is pretty much everyone. Let’s get it right!

2.  If you need a miracle in your marriage, register for and attend our 5-Day Weekend Marriage Intensive, If you just need to learn these things to teach marriage properly, then you can sign up for our online course. You want to IMMERSE yourself into the correct teachings about marriage that will enable you to help couples have an Outrageously Happy Marriage.

3.   We would love to do a seminar for your body of believers. Feel free to reach out to us about this possibility.

 A final word to you. For almost 20 years now, we have been helping couples all over the USA and around the world. 

One of our biggest challenges is that we will be helping a couple and they will have a “counseling session” with their pastor. In that counseling session, their pastor will begin to undo what we have been accomplishing in the couple.

For example: We are telling a couple that they must continue reading our books and getting on our coaching calls. The husband complains. Instead of backing up the work that God has started in their hearts, the Pastor says, “Oh, you don’t have to read those books and get help from them. Here, let me recommend some books to you.”  That husband is then gone. He got his validation to continue in his own way that he wants to go.

Please don’t be that type of Pastor.

Please be the type of Pastor, Leader, Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Teacher who LEANS INTO someone who has had marriage as their “lane” for 18 years.

We can help YOU to become a more effective leader when it comes to marriage.

There are certain things that you can learn that are basics... things that you can say that validate the correct ways of an outrageously happy marriage.

Well, those are our thoughts for today.

We stand with you. We encourage you.

The Body of Christ is in a moment in history. An important moment.

We need our marriages to be our HAPPY PLACE – our place of safety, peace, love and joy!

We would love to help you and your people experience this happy place!

Blessings to you!

Joel and Kathy